Storage Auctions

Online Storage Auctions => Online Storage Auctions => Topic started by: MovieMan on October 22, 2013, 11:03:58 PM

Title: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on October 22, 2013, 11:03:58 PM
This thread is being presented to provide background as to the number of people who buy online as opposed to buying offline. The article in the link takes a worldwide view of online shopping.

dealjoy (dot) com/how-many-people-shop-online--shopping/

Of course it is very broadbased and even looks at worldwide figures, but the idea is that general online buying is significant and widespread while the future of online storage auction buying is just that...in the future...and to what extent we won't know until we get there.

There are several other threads (on completely different topics) but which contain some elements of this discussion, so I am starting this one to narrow the scope and give the discussion its own home.

Travis' view on the future of online auctions is well known by any reader here who drops in more than once every six months and perhaps my view is known too.  Basically, he has a focus to promote his business. My focus is not to question his vision per se, but the whole idea that online auctions make sense to the "x" number of buyers who buy storage lockers to make money or just for fun.

Our numbers are SMALL when compared to the online buying public at large and any kind of comparison between the two is so lopsided as to not make sense...but then, that's just my opinion. Travis will share his I'm sure. Will you share yours?

Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: StorageAuctionFinds on October 23, 2013, 10:01:21 AM
When I first heard of Online bidding for storage auctions, I got excited. After looking into it a little more I wasn't as excited. At least 50% of the pics of lockers I see online are low quality or out of focus, Most of the better ones still don't come even close to the eyes on view you get at the physical auction. The prices for the units also seem to go alot higher than the in person ones, in my opinion.

Another point brought up before about weekend warriors who can't make it to a weekday auction was taht they can have a chance. Well you still run into the issue of if an online auction ends on Monday and you have even 72 hours to clean it out. If I can't get to the auction on Monday because of work committments, I probably wouldn't be able to get there Tuesday Wednesday or Thursday either to clean it out, so in my mind the online auctions give a greater advantage to the full time buyers. I admit I am not a full time buyer(yet). I don't think facilities should cater to any one type of buyer either. So I am not promoting changes to make it easier for weekend warriors, just pointing out why it is difficult for me to take advantage of the online auctions.

1 additional point, I happen to live in a place where any of the nearest online auctions are about 1 1/2 hours away. which compounds the above issues as well.

anyway thats my 2 cents
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: StorageSnag on January 04, 2014, 10:17:05 AM
Buying online is more than convenience than an actual replacement to me.  When i started my own storage auction website, it was because I thought it would be another avenue for those of us who enjoy it.  Many of us have families, demanding jobs ect.  And though life is busy for a lot of people, there's usually sometime on the weekend or evenings that people have some free time.  So it's useful that you can search for your auction, still do something you enjoy, and find that hidden gem that you will keep or make you a profit.  But there's nothing like going to the real thing though
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on January 04, 2014, 11:10:31 AM
Live auctions are overrated. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the social aspect of live auctions, but you know what I enjoy more than that? - Making money! With virtual auctions, I don't have to spend money on gas driving to several locations every day of the week. On some days, I can be bidding on several units that are at several different locations, thus greatly improving my odds of getting a unit. Heck, I could even be at a live auction, work, the doctor's office and still be bidding on units I like. They're super convenient and, like it or not, the storage industry is embracing virtual auctions and, even though it will take time to get everyone on the same page, the future of this business is rapidly approaching.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on January 04, 2014, 12:39:32 PM
Live auctions are overrated.

Yet they have succeded for three decades or more, and granted the tech world wasn't ready for them during 20 or so of those years, but the internet has been around since the late 90s in pretty good strength and yet no-one jumped on the idea.

Now there are a number of online auction sites (and probably more regionally) but they still haven't taken hold.

Exploring this here in the forum a few months ago I was very surprised to find how few there were in the Dallas-Ft Worth area and that is one of a half dozen major markets in the USA.

Nope, I'm a die-hard "it won't replace" regular auctions person and I doubt it will ever be a big supplement to the live auctions either.

Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on January 04, 2014, 01:19:25 PM
Nope, I'm a die-hard "it won't replace" regular auctions person and I doubt it will ever be a big supplement to the live auctions either.

Only time will tell my friend.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Mike in SD on January 12, 2014, 04:59:48 PM
The only way I will be bidding online is if the facilities conducting auctions will allow a preview period.  No matter how good the photographs and descriptions are, they can not account for foul-smelling units and viewing for yourself in person.  I also see too many fools bidding up units to crazy high prices, which I'm sure is to the delight of both the facilities and these online auction websites.  Some people still don't realize that with every gold rush, it's the ones who provide the picks and axes who get rich, and seldom the miners.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on January 12, 2014, 06:11:55 PM
Some people still don't realize that with every gold rush, it's the ones who provide the picks and axes who get rich, and seldom the miners.

We Californians know that very well due to the 49ers (miners not football players).

Three years ago I almost bought the auction business of one the four major auctioneers in my area. The cost was $60K and I think I could have gotten it for $50K.  As we were beginning talks the tv shows came on.

Add one more reason for hating those shows. The auctioneer saw the gold rush and didn't sell and is still doing it today. After this I'm not as interested as the crowds and prices are going back down.  Bad timing.

Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Mike in SD on January 13, 2014, 01:49:10 PM

Three years ago I almost bought the auction business of one the four major auctioneers in my area. The cost was $60K and I think I could have gotten it for $50K.  As we were beginning talks the tv shows came on.


As with every boom, people think it'll last forever and get greedy. Probably for the best that you didn't purchase his business. Besides, you wouldn't want auctioneering to cut into your picking time  :).
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Mangal on January 31, 2014, 06:06:06 AM
Hello MovieMan,

I saw your link.And thank you for sharing useful information.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: mhuynh9 on January 31, 2014, 09:45:55 AM
Yet they have succeded for three decades or more, and granted the tech world wasn't ready for them during 20 or so of those years, but the internet has been around since the late 90s in pretty good strength and yet no-one jumped on the idea.
The internet has been around since the 90s and Facebook started in 2004.  Last year Facebook mobile ads did more than all of Yahoo combined.  There is still plenty of room for growth. 
Every facility manager I have talked to love online auctions fees and all.  The buyers are not as happy and watching what the units sell for I understand. 
Here is the caveat, when there are a lot of units up for auction online the prices become more reasonable so as the industry grows it will balance out. 
I love online auctions bad pictures and all because deep down I am a capitalist.  It will get better.  Pictures will get better.  More units will go up and most of the kinks will work itself out. 
Online Auctions new pictures are great much better than SBs.  That will make SBs better if they want to compete.  Its how America works we keep getting better.
Live auctions will not go out of business but there will be more and more online auctions in the future.
But I bet Barnes and Nobles never thought they would be dinosaurs so soon. Best Buy is in danger of the same fate. The times they are a changing.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on January 31, 2014, 10:59:38 AM
The internet has been around since the 90s and Facebook started in 2004.  Last year Facebook mobile ads did more than all of Yahoo combined.  There is still plenty of room for growth. 
Every facility manager I have talked to love online auctions fees and all.  The buyers are not as happy and watching what the units sell for I understand. 
Here is the caveat, when there are a lot of units up for auction online the prices become more reasonable so as the industry grows it will balance out. 
I love online auctions bad pictures and all because deep down I am a capitalist.  It will get better.  Pictures will get better.  More units will go up and most of the kinks will work itself out. 
Online Auctions new pictures are great much better than SBs.  That will make SBs better if they want to compete.  Its how America works we keep getting better.
Live auctions will not go out of business but there will be more and more online auctions in the future.
But I bet Barnes and Nobles never thought they would be dinosaurs so soon. Best Buy is in danger of the same fate. The times they are a changing.

Spoken like a true visionary!
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: luke on February 01, 2014, 05:17:52 PM
The only winners in the online auction in the long run is the facilities and the site that charges the commission. 


Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on February 01, 2014, 05:25:50 PM
The only winners in the online auction in the long run is the facilities and the site that charges the commission.

I think Mhuynh9 hit the nail on the head. As of now, storage units sold online are selling for a premium, although you can still get a bargain from time to time. Over the next several years, online auctions will become commonplace and the prices will be more reasonable. Then when you factor in the time and gas you're saving, it's a no brainer.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: luke on February 02, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
One of the major problems with the way the photo's are done, besides the blurry ones, you can't see all the angles you want to see and the storage facility can be deceptive when taking the pictures.

Lets say that theirs a box labelled, "Gold Bars".  Now from certain angles you can easily tell the box is open and there's nothing in it.  But the angle in which the photo is taken, you can't see, and makes you wonder if their can possibly be gold bars in the box.

Now this issue can possibly be overcome with camera's that does panoramic from 3 locations (Left Center Right) and 3 height points.  (2 feet, 5, feet, 8 feet). A minimum of 9 photo's.  But the site or someone (Government??)  is going to have to lay down the law on how photo's must be taken to meet the minimum standard.


 
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on February 02, 2014, 01:12:14 PM
But the site or someone (Government??)  is going to have to lay down the law on how photo's must be taken to meet the minimum standard.

Don't you mean 50 state governments ?  The feds will never get involved with something like this so you're looking at 50 states and I doubt they would get down to the nitty-gritty of what some photos look like.

It's one thing for a state to protect the "rights" of a former tenant who may lose his belongings to an auction, and quite another to give a prospective buyer a better shot at a good buy.

If the storage sites or the online auctioneers set standards that's another matter, but one is still looking at a lot of variable from state to state and even city to city.

Nope, I don't think these birds are going to fly.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on February 02, 2014, 06:02:42 PM
Nope, I don't think these birds are going to fly.

Someone probably said the same thing to the Wright Brothers.   ;)

I don't think the government would ever regulate the quality of photos; however, the smart storage facilities will take high quality photos from several angles. It definitely makes a difference.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on February 02, 2014, 06:27:25 PM
Someone probably said the same thing to the Wright Brothers. 

The differences between you and them are numerous, but the chief one is they were only trying to overcome gravity.

Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on February 03, 2014, 11:37:55 AM
The differences between you and them are numerous, but the chief one is they were only trying to overcome gravity.


Actually, they weren't trying to overcome gravity, others had built and flown aircraft before they ever came along. The Wright brothers invented a steering mechanism for powered aircraft. But who am I to give you a history lesson.

In no way am I comparing my project to theirs. Theirs required years of research and testing, some of which involved putting their life on the line. All I'm trying to do is sway public opinion, which really isn't that difficult since most are in favor of this new technology anyway.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: luke on February 03, 2014, 12:31:39 PM
Quote
Don't you mean 50 state governments ?

Yeah, I was thinking state regulators..  Some states may decide it's illegal to conduct tenant auctions online, violating privacy rights of the tenant, the tenant still technically owns the rights to the unit until it's sold.

The whole online auction thing concerning the tenants right can blow up and be shut down. It's the risk ones takes.

 
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: luke on February 03, 2014, 12:35:57 PM
You can read about Ohio Lien laws here.

http://onlinestorageauctions.com/forum/legal-issues/are-online-storage-auctions-legal-in-ohio/

It sounds like online auctions for lien sales are legal in Ohio.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on February 03, 2014, 01:17:06 PM
It sounds like online auctions for lien sales might be illegal in Ohio.

It will probably take 2-5 years before we see clear and concise language in our lien laws for all 50 states. Several states now specifically allow online storage auctions and other states allow the storage facility to dispose of the storage unit however they see fit after after all legal requirements have been met. Other lien laws are ambiguous.

A lot of states have a provision that is worded something like this: "The sale of the personal property shall be held at the self-service storage facility or,  at the nearest suitable place to the self-service storage facility at which the personal property is stored." Keep in mind that this was designed to protect the tenant and prevent misconduct by the storage facility, not to prevent the sale from occurring online.

Also, with online storage auctions, the property is still located on the premises and technically still being sold at the storage facility because the consummated sale (the actual exchanging of funds) takes place at the facility when the buyer comes in to pay.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on February 03, 2014, 01:39:05 PM

All I'm trying to do is sway public opinion, which really isn't that difficult since most are in favor of this new technology anyway.

Can you quantify most?  As an example, what percentage of people who buy auction lockers buy them online?
Or, what percentage of storage facilities use online auctions vs. regular storage auctions conducted on their sites by a real person?

Frankly, I doubt there is "any" hard evidence along either of those lines, but if it does exists it has to be in the 1% or less category.

I'm talking about NOW   (January, 2014), not a year from now or two to ten years from now.

If such statistics are available please quote your source(s). Anecdotal information from a few buyers or facility owners is only that....anecdotal.



Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: luke on February 03, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
It will probably take 2-5 years before we see clear and concise language in our lien laws for all 50 states. Several states now specifically allow online storage auctions and other states allow the storage facility to dispose of the storage unit however they see fit after after all legal requirements have been met. Other lien laws are ambiguous.

That's the risk take the online auction place and facilities take, if it is illegal and they interrupted the law incorrectly, they can be shut down and fined and prosecuted. It's always best to get concrete information before engaging such activities.

When I used to own my pet store and I was thinking about manufacturing and selling my own pet food. I called the state dept of agriculture to see what the rules were and if I was legally allow to manufacture my own pet food for sale and what types of certification I would need at the facility to make it happen. What are the label requirements, etc.  The real issues came in, if you do out of state Commerce, You have to follow the rules of each state and on top of that you have to deal with the federal regulations. You also had to pay the state per amount of tonnage of food you produced.

Ultimately, it's a long process to be in compliance.  The storage facility just has to worry about the state they are in, a global online marketplace has a lot more to worry about.


Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on February 03, 2014, 08:07:02 PM
That's the risk take the online auction place and facilities take, if it is illegal and they interrupted the law incorrectly, they can be shut down and fined and prosecuted. It's always best to get concrete information before engaging such activities.

I respect your opinion and honestly, I used to feel the same way you do. However, after pondering over this for over a year, I came to a realization....nobody knows for sure. Not me, not the storage facilities, not the state or national associations, not even the attorneys can offer more than their opinion. Heck, I've even contacted the Texas Attorney General's office about this and they couldn't say for sure. The fact is, the only way this is going to ever get worked out is if our lawmakers add clear and concise language to our lien laws or if a disgruntled tenant (who just happens to be aware that the lien laws related to online storage auctions are ambiguous in some states) brings a wrongful foreclosure lawsuit against a storage facility. The possibility of this happening is pretty slim since people who can't afford to pay a few hundred dollars in back rent can't afford to retain the services of an attorney to challenge a vague law.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: blaknite on February 17, 2014, 02:13:45 AM
I've bought several units online, mostly when I first started buying storage auctions.  I don't bid online anymore. 

There's a fair number of problems that keep me from it.  First is transparency.  I payed 4350 for one good unit online.  It was worth the price, but it has me questioning who was my competition.  There's no clear bid history and no way to know I'm not being cheated / shill bid.  I have a strong feeling, but no proof that they may have either intentionally (or by a glitch) let me win at my max bid. 

Another problem is dishonesty by the facility.  I've won a unit that was infested with cockroaches.  You can bet things like mice, insect infestation, illegal items, toxic chemicals will be missed when photographing units.  All of these can be costly to deal with.

I don't see a problem with the industry moving to online auctions overall, except that the law needs to catch up if its going that way.   Specific rules for how units are photographed.  Required resolution of photos.  Specific rules that auction sites must follow.  Clear display of bid history.  Some kind of oversight.  (Dept of weights and measures review?) The attraction to storage auctions for me is that its a gamble with odds that I can see.  When the rules get shady its no longer worth playing.  You won't catch me in Vegas, I don't like the odds.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: Travis on February 17, 2014, 11:56:12 AM
There's no clear bid history and no way to know I'm not being cheated / shill bid.

On our competitors sites, true. On OnlineStorageAuctions.com, there is a posted bids section which displays each bidder's username, bid amount and date/time of their bid. As for shill bidding, that happens at in person auctions as well.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: HomeGrownPromos on February 17, 2014, 12:22:49 PM
Recently, I've purchased many more units online than in person. However, I would never ever spend big money on a unit that's listed online.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on February 17, 2014, 12:45:07 PM
As for shill bidding, that happens at in person auctions as well.

At least at regular auctions (depending on crowd size and your familiarity with the bidders) you can see who is bidding against you; strangers would stand out...if they keep bidding high and no one else with you knows them, dump it on them.

Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: MovieMan on February 17, 2014, 12:48:03 PM
Recently, I've purchased many more units online than in person. However, I would never ever spend big money on a unit that's listed online.

How much is "big money" ?
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: HomeGrownPromos on February 17, 2014, 12:52:37 PM
How much is "big money" ?

Over $1,000 for sure. I haven't needed to spend more than $500 on an online auction yet. Other units have gone for more money than $500, but either had items I wasn't interested in, or I felt like it wasn't worth the money.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: blaknite on February 17, 2014, 08:27:05 PM
As for shill bidding, that happens at in person auctions as well.

Very true, in fact I've seen a lot of bad behavior at live auctions.  The difference is that at a live auction I can see it happen and adjust my bidding strategy or not bid at all accordingly.  Online that ain't the case.  As I said though, I'm not against online bidding.  I just want to see some things fixed before I get out my wallet. 

Its probably fine for most people just like it is.  Lots of people go to the casino knowing the odds are stacked against them.  I'm just not one of them.
Title: Re: How many people buy online?
Post by: bakerben on May 30, 2014, 03:57:14 PM
i bought my first online storage unit about a month ago. payed $380, turned over $300 in the same day, had about $2k worth of stuff left afterwards. It is just another tool to grow your business. I PREFER live auctions but if there is a nice unit I will set a price for myself and go up to that price. The online auction I won was about 5 minutes from my house too so it was in my best interest to at least try it out.