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How do you feel about Obama Care

Offline Travis

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How do you feel about Obama Care
« on: July 27, 2013, 10:45:14 AM »
Most of us in the resale business are forced to buy private insurance or can't afford health insurance at all.

I believe Obama Care goes into effect in October. What do you think about this plan?

Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 04:08:29 PM »
I really think it's a stepping stone to universal health care and something that this country needs to do to reign in the ridiculous costs of health care. I believe that employers are being sold a bag of terrified goods by the likes of Fox News and others (Rush Limbaugh, etc.) The costs to business owners should not be that extensive, if they do what they're supposed to. The problem is, these major corporations and medium sized businesses (who aim to be large corporations) are only focused on the dollar and not on the person behind it.

Offline Travis

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 05:31:20 PM »
I really think it's a stepping stone to universal health care and something that this country needs to do to reign in the ridiculous costs of health care.

I agree. It's gotten out of hand when an average family can't afford health insurance. I was recently shopping for private health insurance for myself (37), my wife (30) and my daughter (3) (all in good health) and most of the quotes were the size of a small house payment. What's even worse, most of the plans still require you to come out of your pocket for doctors visits and limit the number of doctors/specialist you can see in a year to like 3 or 4 visits. It's a racket.

The reason our health insurance costs are out of control is because of medical malpractice lawsuits, greedy pharmaceutical companies and people not paying their medical bills. 

Offline alloro

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 09:28:17 AM »
I believe that employers are being sold a bag of terrified goods by the likes of Fox News and others (Rush Limbaugh, etc.) The costs to business owners should not be that extensive, if they do what they're supposed to.

As a business owner I can honestly say you have no clue as to what you're talking about.

Offline alloro

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 09:32:32 AM »
The reason our health insurance costs are out of control is because of medical malpractice lawsuits, greedy pharmaceutical companies and people not paying their medical bills.

The main reason for the high health care costs are the exceptional services provided. When you compare our hospitals and other health care facilities to other countries, we here have far superior equipment, sanitary conditions, and trained personnel. Basically you're getting what you pay for. The second reason for the high health costs is because people like to run to their doctors or the emergency room every time they get a sniffle.

Offline Travis

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 11:20:29 AM »
The main reason for the high health care costs are the exceptional services provided. When you compare our hospitals and other health care facilities to other countries, we here have far superior equipment, sanitary conditions, and trained personnel. Basically you're getting what you pay for. The second reason for the high health costs is because people like to run to their doctors or the emergency room every time they get a sniffle.

I agree, we do have the greatest health care system in the world but what good is great healthcare if half our population can't afford it?

Did you know that a family of three making more than $14,000 a year doesn't qualify for Medicaid?

How are they expected to come up with $5-8K a year for health insurance?

Offline alloro

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 11:29:08 AM »
How are they expected to come up with $5-8K a year for health insurance?

Start by giving up everybody needing to carry a smartphone, then quit buying $75 video games, then quit ordering takeout 5 nights a week, then give up the 250 channel cable or satellite subscription, then stop buying 2 new cars on credit, then stop buying the kids $200 sneakers, then stop voting in those that want to tax and give it away, etc. The toys have become the priority over the needs of the family these days because the new attitude is that the government will give and give.

Offline Travis

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 11:43:04 AM »
Start by giving up everybody needing to carry a smartphone, then quit buying $75 video games, then quit ordering takeout 5 nights a week, then give up the 250 channel cable or satellite subscription, then stop buying 2 new cars on credit, then stop buying the kids $200 sneakers, then stop voting in those that want to tax and give it away, etc. The toys have become the priority over the needs of the family these days because the new attitude is that the government will give and give.

Very true. I see people on government assistance driving new Escalades.

A family that earns a little over $14,000 a year and is conservative with their money might not qualify for government assistance; however, a family that is living beyond their means (expensive house note, 2 luxury car payments, severe credit card debt, etc.) making 60-70K a year might qualify for government assistance because of their bills. It's a system that rewards irresponsibility.   

Offline Cobia

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2013, 09:16:45 PM »
Start by giving up everybody needing to carry a smartphone, then quit buying $75 video games, then quit ordering takeout 5 nights a week, then give up the 250 channel cable or satellite subscription, then stop buying 2 new cars on credit, then stop buying the kids $200 sneakers, then stop voting in those that want to tax and give it away, etc. The toys have become the priority over the needs of the family these days because the new attitude is that the government will give and give.

Although I agree with your assessment, if everyone started doing like you say, i'd be out of business!  :'(

I've been informed that the "small house payment" insurance plan I have now is not "good" enough under the new health care legislation and i will be forced to purchase a new plan next year. Can't wait to see what that's gonna cost. I might turn into one of those "moochers" who has to get a government exchange health care plan.

Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 08:30:20 AM »
As a business owner I can honestly say you have no clue as to what you're talking about.

As a business owner myself, I can tell you that a majority of this country considers Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and other pundits (John Stewart, Rachel Maddow) actual news. We've lost sight of what news commentaries or editorials are. It's been tough, because these people, with the exception of John Stewart, purport themselves as actual news.. and when they report things wrong they run behind their "entertainment" badge. They know that they influence people in the country including and especially politicians.

So when they say,  "The government plan is so expensive, it adds $1.79 per hour to the cost of a full-time employee." - Rush Limbaugh 11/2012, that's really frightening to all business owners, me included. $3723.20 per employee, per year, the day the plan goes into effect. Just taking this statement at face value.

But let's look at how it really works...

If employers who employ over 50 people decide to provide a low cost health insurance option for their employees, they pay nothing. No tax, no demands to pay portions of the cost of the health care. They just have to "offer" it. Of course, if the business decides to pay a portion of the cost, they would incur that charge. But it's totally up to the business to decide whether that makes sense for the business.

If an employer who employs over 50 people decides AGAINST providing a low cost health insurance option for their employees, they would incur a tax penalty of $2000 per employee, or .97/hour for a full time employee. A far cry from the $3723.20/$1.79. IF that employee decides to get health insurance on their own, because their employee does not offer anything, there is supposed to be a system in place (the reason for this 1 year delay) for the government to tax an additional $1000 for that specific employee. So an employer could see a tax burden of up to $3000/year per employee who purchases health insurance, only when their company does not offer it.

If an employee decides to purchase health insurance because they don't like their employer's options, or for whatever reason, but the employer DOES offer insurance; that employer pays nothing.

Small businesses who employ less than 25 people could actually earn a tax credit for offering insurance. The tax credit, I assume is to offset any cost to pay a portion of the cost for the employee. But I don't see anything that states that any employer MUST pay a portion of the insurance cost. They just have to OFFER it.

Pundits rely on fear to continue to bring the ratings in. They want to keep you afraid and mad so that they can pretend to be mad with you and offer "facts and solutions" to problems that really don't exist, in most cases. They rip apart statements, take them out of context, to prove a point. They provide commentary, opinions, very little facts and call it "news".

Offline Travis

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 10:11:44 AM »
Sounds like he knows what he's talking about.  ;D

Offline alloro

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 02:27:31 PM »
Sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

Not really because all he's talking about are the tax penalties for not providing the insurance and not the cost to provide the insurance. Of course using his penalty figures of 2,000 plus 1,000 (3,000) for the 50 employees is still $150,000 a year penalty for the business. So tell me what happens to a business that's just getting by with a $100,000 profit before OC kicks in and then they get whacked with this $150,000 tax penalty? The business goes belly up or starts cutting employees. What happens to a large corporation that employs 50,000 workers and gets hit with a $3K per penalty? That's a $150,000,000 penalty. Now lets move on to those employees who's company's don't offer the insurance, where does the employee get the insurance? That's right, from good old Uncle Sam. Now where does Uncle Sam get the money to pay for these people that want OC? That's right taxes. Now who is that is being targeted for increased taxes to help with the cost of OC, yup you got it, businesses. So now on top of the $3,000 tax penalty, these businesses pay other additional taxes indirectly for the cost to provide OC.

When you start looking at the whole picture, the figure of $3,723.20 per employee, per year, given by Rush Limbaugh isn't such a fairy tale.

Offline Travis

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 02:38:06 PM »
Like HomeGrown was saying, the business merely needs to offer health insurance, not pay for it.

If I had 20 +/- employees, surely I could find a health insurance company that would offer a discount group rate. Would that be sufficient?

Offline alloro

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2013, 03:16:54 PM »
the business merely needs to offer health insurance, not pay for it.

Does this even make any sense to you? Health insurance has to be offered but not paid for? If one needs the insurance then whom is to pay for it?

As of right now, many companies already offer heath insurance as a benefit and they pay a portion of the premium. Am I supposed to believe with OC that as an employer I now only have to offer an opportunity to have insurance but will no longer have to pay any premiums towards it?

Offline Travis

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Re: How do you feel about Obama Care
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2013, 03:41:27 PM »
Does this even make any sense to you? Health insurance has to be offered but not paid for? If one needs the insurance then whom is to pay for it?

Yes it does make sense. An employer can offer health insurance coverage at a discounted rate without having to pay for it by negotiating a group rate with a provider. It's up to the employee to chose whether they want to participate in the plan or find health coverage on their own.


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